We need only one demand

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Like the Flow Chart!

Post by Guest on Tue Oct 25, 2011 12:08 pm

Thanks for the link, Bob! LOL!

I do want to be effective. What I'm wrestling with in my mind is how to achieve two ultimate goals:
1. How to achieve consensus within this group on a mission/goal and;
2. How to attract as many people as possible to participate in our group, so our convention next July can be truly representative of the 99% and their goals for the Bill of Grievances, or whatever we choose to call it.

I live in northern New Hampshire, a center of fiscal conservatism.
I grew up in central Illinois, a center of fiscal and often social conservatism.
I lived for nearly a decade in Seattle/Bellingham WA where I watched Liberals swallow their own tails again and again by getting hung up on "the real problem." We really are so intense, so educated and so idealistic that we often find ourselves stuck in blind alleys that we can't find our way out of. (I am not in any way suggesting that your argument is a blind alley, BTW, only that this thread reminds me of that potential pitfall!)

What I need to be comfortable with before I set forth and spread the word about this thing is that our message is so compelling, so expressive of people's frustrations and hopes that it will attract the support of everyone from my parents (who always support me) to my cynical brother to my salt-of-the-earth childhood friends and current coworkers to my religiously-leaning friends and acquaintances and gun-toting Tea Party neighbors. I want this without getting lost in a blind alley.

I think this is such a tall order that I'd have a better chance of joining the 1%!
At any rate, my agenda and my fears are on the table. I will continue to contribute with these ideals in mind, knowing full well that nothing we come up with will be perfect. I'll accept "good enough." geek

Peace,
Johanna

Guest
Guest


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Re: We need only one demand

Post by RAB on Tue Oct 25, 2011 12:33 pm

At any rate, my agenda and my fears are on the table. I will continue to contribute with these ideals in mind, knowing full well that nothing we come up with will be perfect. I'll accept "good enough."

Peace,
Johanna

Thanks, Johanna.

If I had to boil down the message, I'd say: Take back control of our money! We recently posted a video with this theme: Taking Control of Our Money.

Bob

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ONE demand, yes.

Post by independentmind on Wed Oct 26, 2011 6:35 pm

One demand.

The problem with OWS currently is two fold.

1: there are too many messages, wants and desires. It confuses the issue and create discourse among the (would be) supporters. Like I, for one, will abandon this movement entirely if mortgage strikes becomes a serious topic.

2: they're yelling at the wrong people. Wall Street is corrupt because Washington wrote laws allowing it to be so.

There needs to be an attention shift. To Washington, forcing them to rewrite policy and get out of bed with Wall Street.

Simple. Direct. To the point. And something everyone in this country wants.

You stop alienating the rich, you stop alienating those who want to be rich, you take the wind out of the ones who call you whiners. You finally have your 99%.

You get the greed and corruption out of the game and everything else you want will fall into place. The political process becomes untainted and you can vote for the people who will take care of all these other "demands".

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Yep...

Post by uncommonfilth on Wed Oct 26, 2011 6:43 pm

independentmind wrote:One demand.

The problem with OWS currently is two fold.

1: there are too many messages, wants and desires. It confuses the issue and create discourse among the (would be) supporters. Like I, for one, will abandon this movement entirely if mortgage strikes becomes a serious topic.

2: they're yelling at the wrong people. Wall Street is corrupt because Washington wrote laws allowing it to be so.

There needs to be an attention shift. To Washington, forcing them to rewrite policy and get out of bed with Wall Street.

Simple. Direct. To the point. And something everyone in this country wants.

You stop alienating the rich, you stop alienating those who want to be rich, you take the wind out of the ones who call you whiners. You finally have your 99%.

You get the greed and corruption out of the game and everything else you want will fall into place.

Not sure about How you're gonna get both of those, my approach has been to demand the transparency neccessary to indentify both the "greed/corruption", and to implement any and all obvious reforms, but these two issues get pretty muddy, very quickly, the fact that we presently have 5 Declarations on 1 Topic, I think says it all...Like Herding Cats.

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I disagree

Post by Adam Brabant on Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:07 pm

I disagree with the idea that we only need one demand. I think we need to think of this as the start of a new political party and need to develop a party platform and clearly define our position on all current important political and social issues.

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Re: We need only one demand

Post by RAB on Thu Oct 27, 2011 12:47 am

2: they're yelling at the wrong people. Wall Street is corrupt because Washington wrote laws allowing it to be so.

There needs to be an attention shift. To Washington, forcing them to rewrite policy and get out of bed with Wall Street.

Simple. Direct. To the point. And something everyone in this country wants.

You stop alienating the rich, you stop alienating those who want to be rich, you take the wind out of the ones who call you whiners. You finally have your 99%.

You get the greed and corruption out of the game and everything else you want will fall into place.

This is backwards. The financiers control the banks that own the Fed, the key corporations, and the government (Washington DC), the military and intelligence forces, the media, and the voting machines BECAUSE they control the creation of money. If you don't take that back, the system will not change.

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One Demand!

Post by Rccoving on Thu Oct 27, 2011 12:41 pm

One demand is the key. It’s simple, "Unassailable", and could be easily explained to people on both sides of the coin. It should contain demands 1-4 without question. The 5th demand is hot button issue that would force our arguments into muddy waters with political zealots on either side. However I think that we should consider inserting #19 into the top 4/5 demands. Should it come to forming our own political party or even really effecting the outcome of any presidential election large pockets of our population would be handicapped by this winner take all (it essentially is regardless of how your state runs elections) electoral college system that is in place.
RCC

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Re: We need only one demand

Post by RAB on Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:16 pm

One demand is the key. It’s simple, "Unassailable", and could be easily explained to people on both sides of the coin. It should contain demands 1-4 without question. The 5th demand is hot button issue that would force our arguments into muddy waters with political zealots on either side. However I think that we should consider inserting #19 into the top 4/5 demands. Should it come to forming our own political party or even really effecting the outcome of any presidential election large pockets of our population would be handicapped by this winner take all (it essentially is regardless of how your state runs elections) electoral college system that is in place.
RCC

Where is the list to which you are referring?

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Re: We need only one demand

Post by Rccoving on Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:37 pm

I was using the one posted on the The99PercentDeclaration website.

https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/

Is this not a good one? If there is another list I'll check that out.
RCC

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Re: We need only one demand

Post by RAB on Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:04 pm

Just so you know, the The99PercentDeclaration is not an official site of the Occupy Wall Street movement, as they note:

http://occupywallst.org/forum/the99percentdeclaration-is-not-a-real-ows-working-/

However, that said, I'm okay with this discussion.

I would say that the one demand that is central is #18. The financiers gained control over the key corporations and governments because they gained control over once-sovereign currencies and credit, that is, they own the printing presses. The Federal Reserve is key, because this is still, mostly, the world reserve currency.

Here is a recent study that shows just how pervasive and centralized their control is:

The way [url=http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21228354.500-revealed--the-capitalist-network-that-runs-the-world.html ]http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21228354.500-revealed--the-capitalist-network-that-runs-the-world.html [/url]

The way it is currently written, #18 is problematic, because the Constitution says that it is the Congress that has the power to create money and regulate its value, not the U.S. Treasury, which is an Executive branch function.

Also, we don't want a top-down system. We need to get liquidity to Main Street. The only state that owns its own bank is North Dakota, which has the lowest unemployment, biggest budget surplus, zero bank failures in the past 10 years, and most community banks per capita. The state does business as the Bank of North Dakota, which helps local banks with loans to small businesses, farms, etc.

Since 2010, 14 states have introduced legislation to study or implement publicly owned banks, and more are looking at this, including many municipalities.

For more information, see: http://www.publicbankinginstitute.org

Also see the YouTube video, "Taking Control of Our Money": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvTDTL55K1U

RAB

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Re: We need only one demand

Post by Rccoving on Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:18 pm

I’m aware of that. I don’t live on or near Wall Street. I’m “occupying “ where I can, and not asking for permission, and I feel that this is a potential/proper vehicle for the OWS to truly grow into a national “movement” (suggesting directional motion). But…

I understand what you are saying about the Federal Reserve and I agree with you. However, as I suggested in another post, by getting the money out of politics and correcting the voting and electoral process the government will again become beholden to its constituents instead of its Financial Backers. From that point the voice of the people would hold sway and issues such as the potential unconstitutionality of the Federal Reserve can be addressed.
RCC

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Re: We need only one demand

Post by RAB on Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:46 pm

As long as the financiers own and control the Fed, no laws are going to be passed regarding money in politics. That's why I'm suggesting that the change has to come from the bottom up--local publicly owned banks.

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Re: We need only one demand

Post by Rccoving on Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:38 pm

I think you and I are in disagreement of who makes and enacts the laws and policies of our country. I think our politicians have been bought and paid for but I think that they still make they laws, and I believe that generally people want to make things better. If we freed them from their perceived financial obligations they could act on our behalf.
If I am incorrect and indeed the Fed and their financiers make the laws and our politicians are superfluous figureheads then you are correct and the first priority would be to do away with the Fed.
RCC

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Re: We need only one demand

Post by RAB on Thu Oct 27, 2011 4:13 pm

I agree, RCC, that you have posed the correct question. Let me add a little background to this, since I believe that the financiers call the shots.

Every President that has tried to take public control over the money creation process has been shot (Lincoln, Garfield, McKinley, and Kennedy). The pistols failed with Andrew Jackson.

All US and NATO attacks have been on countries that owned their own central bank: Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, Bahrain, Libya. Next on the list are Syria, Iran, Cuba, North Korea, etc.

If you look at all the policies that our demands address, they were all created to benefit the banks and the corporations that they own. Since this includes the companies that make the voting machines (which, a few years back, Congress forced the states and municipalities to buy), this has made it easy to elect the people that serve them. The only two members of Congress that are outside the box are Kucinich and Paul. They got rid of Feingold, McKinney and the rest. During the last election, there was an 85% skew to the right between the exit polls and the "official results":

http://www.opednews.com/articles/The-Scoop-on-Election-Thef-by-Josh-Mitteldorf-101103-827.html

So, though I believe that doing away with the Fed is the number one priority on a national level, I'm not sure how possible that is. But focusing on it would be educational for those who are wondering what the root cause is.

However, the Public Banking Institute has been focusing on a grassroots campaign for municipal, county, and state banks, where the odds seem to be better. In home rule municipalities and counties, it's even possible to re-institute paper ballots and permit more than just the Dems and Reps to watch the ballots from beginning to end.

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Re: We need only one demand

Post by RayArrowood on Thu Oct 27, 2011 4:30 pm

We have a first draft of the petition in progress, and it focuses just on the corruption and greed solutions. This is what all the OWS protests are focused on, and I think everyone agrees that we need to stick to that "one demand" if we want all the local GAs to support our petition.

The drafting work group is looking for additional specific solutions that directly address the greed and corruption, and reading all the forum messages to find them will take a lot of time. We could use your help.

If you have suggested a solution that is not included in the original list of grievances, please PM me with the suggestion.

Thanks

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