Realistic Online Polls

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Realistic Online Polls

Post by randallburns on Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:06 am

We've all seen those opinion polls corporations use to sell products-or candidates.

National consensus is a funny thing. Most of us know what people around us think-but that rarely gives us a good indication what people in the nation as whole think.

Folks that support the occupy movement are only part of the 99%. To really create a new national consensus
we need to first really accurately understand what the current national consensus is-and how it might be changed.

How does this relate to an online general assembly? Well if a block of volunteers could be obtained that really did span the US political landscape, we'd be closer to making this happen. If we had the right information about a block of volunteers, we could use that information to adjust the results of an online poll to be closer to what we might get from a poll of the public.

One idea I've had:
conduct some non-secret ballot polls-including some issues that we'd like some answers to beyond the standard issues. My first question: who has some ideas for poll questions? Who is willing to volunteer for polling?

Click here:
http://www.people-press.org/2011/05/04/beyond-red-vs-blue-the-political-typology/
There is a link called "take the quiz"

publish your detailed results here along with location and ethnicity and age. This lets us adjust for sample bias.

I may also need an email address for purposes of poll security
(I'll probably use an external polling system for the polling we do).

Here is a link on the kind of poll we might do on the internet
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_access_poll


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Re: Realistic Online Polls

Post by PDT on Sun Nov 06, 2011 8:43 am

First thing we need everyone to do here is to make sure their profile information is filled out. We need to have age, sex and location. This will give us some of the demographics we need to make sure our sample is representative of the country.

-Paul

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Re: Realistic Online Polls

Post by Brandon Harper on Thu Nov 10, 2011 1:12 am

In regard to cooperating with people who have no or limited access to the internet, I don't think we should necessarily rule out paper as a tool. Since part of our goal is to sign a petition anyway, forming a written collection of public opinion by designing and printing useful surveys could be a simple and straight-forward matter. If nothing else, it could at least provide a kind of insurance policy/tangible headcount in the event of complication with internet services. I think there are enough people who want their voices heard to pull this off.

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Re: Realistic Online Polls

Post by randallburns on Thu Nov 10, 2011 2:27 pm

When doing polling, it makes sense to enable people to collect responses from folks that aren't online. I don't think that is the way to get things started initially though.

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Re: Realistic Online Polls

Post by PDT on Thu Nov 10, 2011 3:12 pm

Telephone polling using random digit dialing technique and representative sample quotas could also be implemented.

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Re: Realistic Online Polls

Post by kathyhoganloryer on Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:43 pm

I don't know how we got on to patenting genes, but I think our work should be about wealth disparity, and the rampant dealings of Wall Street in confiscating the wealth and buying the political process.

There are a thousands ills in the world, but in my view, Occupy Wall Street is about Wall Street, and I thin k that is where the focus should remain.

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Re: genes

Post by PDT on Mon Nov 14, 2011 8:15 am

kathyhoganloryer wrote:I don't know how we got on to patenting genes, but I think our work should be about wealth disparity, and the rampant dealings of Wall Street in confiscating the wealth and buying the political process.

There are a thousands ills in the world, but in my view, Occupy Wall Street is about Wall Street, and I thin k that is where the focus should remain.

I agree, Kathy. Not that some people may have concerns that are indirectly linked. Corporate ownership of anything human has to be off the table. But that is where the corporatists are headed because nobody stops them from doing anything with our current government.

It just shows how far along they are and why we must stop them and turn back the tide. We should begin with the basics. No more corporate influence in our government. Period.

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Re: Realistic Online Polls

Post by kathyhoganloryer on Mon Nov 14, 2011 9:37 am

I understand what you're saying. In the last few days the Occupy Philly people voted to stay at Dillworth Plaza (at Ciuty Hall) rather than move across the street, where the City has asked them to move.

The City has has longstanding plans to begin construction work at Dillworth Plaza this Novemeber, and they need the occupiers to move, and they won't.

So, fine, now the fight is going to be about Dillworth Plaza, which I could not give a damn about. Now the fight is going to pit occupiers against the construction workers, who will be prevented from working, when they desparately need the work.

Look, I support the occupy movemenbt, absolutely. I am dismayed at what I am seeing in Philly and in some other places, where the big picture it is being diluted and devolving into petty parochial squabbles that are deflecting the focus away from the issues that got us all here in the first place.

Many more movements are derailed than succeed, and those that fail do exactly this -- get off into the weeds with tangential and internal squabbles and then are never heard from again. I hope I'm wrong about the occupiers headed in the that direction, I truly hope I am wrong.

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Re: Realistic Online Polls

Post by PDT on Mon Nov 14, 2011 9:54 am

It is a tough call with the Philly movement. I have been in contact with some of the occupiers. The project the city wants to start is a skating rink. (a skating rink at city hall?) A 50 million dollar skating rink. The occupiers have stated that maybe that money could be spent somewhere else. Schools? Homeless shelters? And I happen to agree. City hall doesn't need a skating rink.

It's also the principal that Dillworth Plaza (City Hall) belongs to the citizens of Philadelphia and that is what this is all about. Someone is going to make money off of the skating rink, and it won't benefit the citizens of Philadelphia all that much. They haven't really gotten that message out. The mayor is now pushing up the rhetoric about how evil the occupiers have become in recent days, in order to help make his case. He was so friendly in the beginning, now he's singing a different tune since the deadline for the project is here.

I say they should stay.

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Re: Realistic Online Polls

Post by TuSpd on Mon Nov 14, 2011 9:57 am

kathyhoganloryer wrote:I understand what you're saying. In the last few days the Occupy Philly people voted to stay at Dillworth Plaza (at Ciuty Hall) rather than move across the street, where the City has asked them to move.

The City has has longstanding plans to begin construction work at Dillworth Plaza this Novemeber, and they need the occupiers to move, and they won't.

So, fine, now the fight is going to be about Dillworth Plaza, which I could not give a damn about. Now the fight is going to pit occupiers against the construction workers, who will be prevented from working, when they desperately need the work.

Look, I support the occupy movement, absolutely. I am dismayed at what I am seeing in Philly and in some other places, where the big picture it is being diluted and devolving into petty parochial squabbles that are deflecting the focus away from the issues that got us all here in the first place.

Many more movements are derailed than succeed, and those that fail do exactly this -- get off into the weeds with tangential and internal squabbles and then are never heard from again. I hope I'm wrong about the occupiers headed in the that direction, I truly hope I am wrong.

I agree with you completely. If the Occupiers want Labor's support, they should NOT hinder or stop construction or they will lose them and possibly others around the country if this continues. Organized Labor (in my opinion) wants to support OWS but doesn't expect them to cause any work stoppages unnecessarily.

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Re: Realistic Online Polls

Post by TuSpd on Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:02 am

kathyhoganloryer wrote:I understand what you're saying. In the last few days the Occupy Philly people voted to stay at Dillworth Plaza (at Ciuty Hall) rather than move across the street, where the City has asked them to move.

The City has has longstanding plans to begin construction work at Dillworth Plaza this Novemeber, and they need the occupiers to move, and they won't.

So, fine, now the fight is going to be about Dillworth Plaza, which I could not give a damn about. Now the fight is going to pit occupiers against the construction workers, who will be prevented from working, when they desperately need the work.

Look, I support the occupy movement, absolutely. I am dismayed at what I am seeing in Philly and in some other places, where the big picture it is being diluted and devolving into petty parochial squabbles that are deflecting the focus away from the issues that got us all here in the first place.

Many more movements are derailed than succeed, and those that fail do exactly this -- get off into the weeds with tangential and internal squabbles and then are never heard from again. I hope I'm wrong about the occupiers headed in the that direction, I truly hope I am wrong.

I agree with you completely. If the Occupiers want Labor's support, they should NOT hinder or stop construction or they will lose them and possibly others around the country if this continues. Organized Labor (in my opinion) wants to support OWS but doesn't expect them to cause any work stoppages unnecessarily.

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Re: Realistic Online Polls

Post by kathyhoganloryer on Mon Nov 14, 2011 11:28 am

PDT - I thought it was just an ice skating rink too, but it's not, it's a whole construction thing, andf the ice skating part is just one small removable activity that is being included in the overall project.

The negotiations and contracts for this work have been going on for more than 2 years, with lots of public hearings on it and opportunity for the public to be heard. This has long been a done deal as far as the constuction start date. It is not some trick the City just came up with to hassle the occupiers. The occupiers were told when the occupation started that they would need to move in November, so there is no big surprise being sprung on the demonstrators.

Look, I totally support the occupy movement, I'm not against them one bit. My only point is that I don't want to see the efforts get distracted and diluted by side arguments that have nothing to do with what we're about.

In other occupations, there's no doubt, the local governments are hassling the occupiers by making them move or trying to shut them down altogether. I don't think that's what's happening in the Philly situation. This is a longstsnding construction contract that the occupiers were told about from the get go, and I don't think the occupiers would be caving in or giving up on anything important by moving across the street.

There are times to stand your ground and fight to the finish, I just don't think this is the right time or situation to do this, under the facts of this particular circumstance.

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Re: Realistic Online Polls

Post by Brandon Harper on Mon Nov 14, 2011 6:41 pm

kathyhoganloryer wrote:PDT - I thought it was just an ice skating rink too, but it's not, it's a whole construction thing, andf the ice skating part is just one small removable activity that is being included in the overall project.

The negotiations and contracts for this work have been going on for more than 2 years, with lots of public hearings on it and opportunity for the public to be heard. This has long been a done deal as far as the constuction start date. It is not some trick the City just came up with to hassle the occupiers. The occupiers were told when the occupation started that they would need to move in November, so there is no big surprise being sprung on the demonstrators.

Look, I totally support the occupy movement, I'm not against them one bit. My only point is that I don't want to see the efforts get distracted and diluted by side arguments that have nothing to do with what we're about.

In other occupations, there's no doubt, the local governments are hassling the occupiers by making them move or trying to shut them down altogether. I don't think that's what's happening in the Philly situation. This is a longstsnding construction contract that the occupiers were told about from the get go, and I don't think the occupiers would be caving in or giving up on anything important by moving across the street.

There are times to stand your ground and fight to the finish, I just don't think this is the right time or situation to do this, under the facts of this particular circumstance.

I wonder what the general thoughts are on this issue among occupy movements around America. If Philly seriously threatens to lose the support of workers, then would it be feasible to make contact with occupy locations that don't agree with what Philly is doing, so that the movement in general can petition them to stop? This may seem a little far-fetched, considering just how fractured and divided things really are, but some attempt to keep Occupy stable must be made.

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Re: Realistic Online Polls

Post by PDT on Mon Nov 14, 2011 7:14 pm

I guess what I'm saying is, it's tough to deny people jobs, but what good is this project really doing the city? There's a brand new condo tower sitting right next store where they can't sell the million dollar units. I'm sure this project has something to do with that. There are plenty of other areas in Philadelphia that could use much more improvement than Dillworth Plaza does right now. So, I'm kind of with the occupiers on this one.

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Re: Realistic Online Polls

Post by kathyhoganloryer on Tue Nov 15, 2011 12:42 am

PDT, hey, think what you like, my blessings upon you. I guess, as a lawyer, I respect the validity of the whole contract and negotiation process. This particular contract, from everything I've read about it, was legitimate, with an open public process. It took a long open process (years) to finalize it. There was nothing shady about it.

The occupiers can do what they like, my blessings upon them, too, but looking at it from the outside, it doesn't seem fair to try to block the whole construction project from going forward at this late date.

The occupation in Philly had nothing to do with the construction project, but it looks like now, that is the only thing it will be about.

I have supported the Philly occupiers, and have brought over dozens of sandwiches. Honestly, I'm not against them, I just don't like that they're going to be all about this stupid construction project at Dillworth Plaza instead of being about the larger core issues.

Brandon, I agree, it would be so very awesome if there were a mechanism for national cross-occupier communication. I'm sure there must be some of that going on informally already, maybe it will develop over time.

I think the whole gestalt of the occupier movement is to respect the decisions made by the individual encampments, through their General Assemblies, so I don't know if outsider opinions by non-participants, or by participants from other locations, would be persuasive. Frustrating, ain't it?

Still, the movement is only 2 months old, and it has already done a lot to influence the national discussion about our many economic dysfunctions. I just hope it can stay on track and keep going, and not get derailed by the many tangential externalities that arise along the way.

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