Federal Reserve

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Federal Reserve

Post by sobe1618 on Tue Oct 18, 2011 10:16 pm

A full scale audit of the Federal Reserve and Ft. Knox should take place every two years.


Last edited by Molly Carmody on Fri Oct 21, 2011 6:41 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Merging all Federal Reserve threads for clarity)

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The declarations do not cover the root cause of the malaise of the nation

Post by deezthugs on Wed Oct 19, 2011 4:15 pm

Hello:

I just read through the Declaration, and have this feedback. It does seem to run a little partisan. I think you need to avoid partisan issues for the time being, as the parties exist to divide people, and some of the declarations are not universally recognized as major problems.

The grievances do not address the *fundamental* problem. They address only the *symptoms* of the problem.
We need a concrete *plan* to:

1. Default on the debt owed by you, me and everyone's great-great-grandchildren to the Federal Reserve ($1.6 trillion)
2. A full dismantling of the Federal Reserve as an entity.

This *private* bank, owned by the 18 "Cartel Banks" (or Primary Dealers), is allowed to create money from nothing, backed only by the ability of the 99% to pay taxes (as well as the reserve currency status of the US Dollar).

This ability to create money from nothing, which becomes an Asset to the banks and a Debt to the people is a much too powerful position for a *private entity* to be in. This is the root cause of the off-balance distribution of wealth in the US as well as the condition of debt slavery the people are in and always will be in until the People take the initiative to dissolve the Federal Reserve and require the Federal Government to take the reigns of Sovereignty and create the People's money.

Until you make this issue the number one priority of the Declaration, you are fighting the symptoms, not the disease. You realize this movement is called "Occupy Wall Street"? Not "Occupy Congress". The real power in this country is in NY on Wall street, issuing Federal Reserve Notes - creating insurmountable debt for generations to come.

The rest of the Declaration is headed in the right direction, but none of those ideas will be able to really take root until this fundamental problem is solved and this egregious disease of state is eradicated.

The OWS movement needs to educate the average citizen in this regard. I feel like I am also educating you right now, so to begin lesson one: "Debunking Money":

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLF239D29F3A323F4B

Until everyone in this country understands how Global Finance Capital operates and controls entire continents, we will still have the same problems as we have always had.


Best Regards,

David


Last edited by deezthugs on Wed Oct 19, 2011 4:20 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : title misspelling)

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Quotes

Post by deezthugs on Wed Oct 19, 2011 4:27 pm

Related to my post above are a few quotes:

"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs."
Thomas Jefferson

"It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand
our banking and monetary system, for if they did,
I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning."
Henry Ford

Yes, it really is that bad.

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Re: Federal Reserve

Post by ihave19voices on Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:23 pm

http://sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/news/?id=70c40aba-736c-4716-97d1-45f1a1af10a0

This just hit today.

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Re: Federal Reserve

Post by SarahKate on Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:05 pm

I would agree that this needs to be looked into further. I am not an economist, but what I know about the way the monetary system in this country works is terrifying. If we don't fix this problem, the symptoms will reappear. Here's another example of how they are continuing to set us up for failure. We need economists who can help advise us on how this can be addressed.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-10-18/bofa-said-to-split-regulators-over-moving-merrill-derivatives-to-bank-unit.html

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Re: Federal Reserve

Post by randallburns on Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:58 pm

My great grandfather was a major leader opposing the creation of the Federal reserve. There is a lot I could say about this.

There are a couple schools of thought on how to deal with that problem.
a) is dismantling it like the original poster suggested. Often that idea is accompanied with the proposal to return to a gold backed currency. Ron Paul is one major leader around that approach. Another school suggests legalizing multiple private currencies-but that has no recent, real world examples.

b) is formal nationalization of the federal reserve and placing it under congressional oversight. Steve Zarlenga of the American Monetary Institute is an advocate of that approach.

The fed does have its advocates-many of whom work for the Fed.

I would suggest a citizens assembly be created representing a cross section of people to seriously discuss the fed-and get them resources from the major sides on the topic. The issue is pretty subtle, and I dont' think it would be settled quickly. It isn't obvious to me if a group of citizens could arrive at a consensus that would instantly translate into a public consensus either.






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The main point...

Post by deezthugs on Wed Oct 19, 2011 11:58 pm

... is that people do need to be educated. I cannot imagine too many busy people stop to ponder what money is, who creates it, who benefits and who loses from the very utility of its creation. It is quite a scam as it is handled today.

We do not need economists to tell us what to do in this case. Economists have utterly failed us as they never look at the issue of how money is created and by whom. The people can solve this problem, but education is key.

The "Debunking Money" video series I pointed to is an hour of your life well spent. The big picture of money creation and the short end of the "balance sheet" we are stuck with is clearly explained. ( http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLF239D29F3A323F4B )

It will be crystal clear to anyone who learns how our money is created that this needs to be rectified. I am not advocating an exact solution here. I think that getting people educated and talking about this issue will bring good solutions to consider forward.

I would hate to see this movement get distracted with partisan issues. The list of declarations is way too long and touches many nerves. The issues of money creation, debt repudiation, mortgage relief and military pullback should probably take the limelight at first. If you want to make an impact - trying to accomplish ONE THING - is going to be much more effective that a giant laundry list.

Remember, for each dollar created from nothing, the bankers get an asset and we are laden with debt.

Regards,

David

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I tend to agree, but...

Post by Mojo on Thu Oct 20, 2011 3:52 am

I tend to agree that the Fed should be abolished, but the question is more, How, exactly, is that to be done and what is to replace it? Presumably a National Bank of some sort. And I have always wondered why our monetary system has to be debt-based, rather than credit based?

I would caution however against making this the "root cause" of all our problems. The issue David raises, however, about how many demands we should have--whether a laundry list or a few--is very important, strategically. I don't know the answer but think it merits a place for a discussion all its own.

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Re: Federal Reserve

Post by ihave19voices on Thu Oct 20, 2011 5:12 am

Mojo wrote:I tend to agree that the Fed should be abolished, but the question is more, How, exactly, is that to be done and what is to replace it? Presumably a National Bank of some sort. And I have always wondered why our monetary system has to be debt-based, rather than credit based?

I would caution however against making this the "root cause" of all our problems. The issue David raises, however, about how many demands we should have--whether a laundry list or a few--is very important, strategically. I don't know the answer but think it merits a place for a discussion all its own.

No national banking.

I agree that The Fed is a corrupt organization with virtually no oversight, but its not the only problem and I dont think its the main problem. Its part of the machinery that is now broken.

As for what replaces it, It would be nice if we had an economist on board to help with issues like these.

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Re: Federal Reserve

Post by deezthugs on Thu Oct 20, 2011 12:00 pm

Mojo wrote:I tend to agree that the Fed should be abolished, but the question is more, How, exactly, is that to be done and what is to replace it? Presumably a National Bank of some sort. And I have always wondered why our monetary system has to be debt-based, rather than credit based?

I would caution however against making this the "root cause" of all our problems. The issue David raises, however, about how many demands we should have--whether a laundry list or a few--is very important, strategically. I don't know the answer but think it merits a place for a discussion all its own.

How it should be done is unknown. Emphasizing the Fed's crimes in OWS messaging is the beginning. Until a large percentage of Americans understand how the money creation scam works, nothing will happen. Creating messages about money - asking questions about the mechanics of the money system in public and providing the answers (like that invaluable YouTube series, above) is a great start. Striking at the heart of the power structure - Wall Street - was a brilliant idea as our government - and most others are captive stooges of the money system.

Previous comments in this thread also mentioned The Bank of North Dakota, which is state-owned - this gives them a lot of power to pay for bond issues fairly, and without the immense usury that is killing states everywhere. Perhaps the same can be done elsewhere, to help students with kinder-gentler student loans, etc.

We don not have to be held captive by these criminals, but we do need to begin to help others understand they are captive.

As far as the laundry list of declarations are concerned. A few top concerns that a consensus can be reached on is a smart move. The media will pick up on a list a mile long and just lampoon it. That is not to say all of these things are important - just that the 2 -3 root causes of this imbalance of power need to be identified and harped upon first.

There is a lot of cross over between "Right" and "Left" - Tea Party and OWS. It would be better to work together rather than squabble. There are root causes we can all agree on. The Powers That Be like us fighting back and forth between so called 'Left' and so called 'Right' to divide and conquer. The average person has about the same base grievances against the power structure. Some may call it the "Government" and others the "Corporations". At this point it is all "Corporatism" to me.

"The chief problem of American political life for a long time has been how to make the two Congressional parties more national and international. The argument that the two parties should represent opposed ideals and policies, one perhaps, of the Right and the other of the Left, is a foolish idea acceptable only to doctrinaire and academic thinkers. Instead the two parties should be almost identical, so that the American people can "throw the rascals out" at any election without leading to any profound or extensive shifts in policy. The policies that are vital and necessary for America are no longer subjects of significant disagreement, but are disputable only in details of procedure, priority, or method .....Then it should be possible to replace it, every four years if necessary, by the other party, which will be none of these things but WILL STILL PURSUE, with new vigor, approximately the SAME BASIC POLICIES."

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Need One Sentence or Phrase that Captures the Malaise

Post by Guest on Thu Oct 20, 2011 12:19 pm

Hey, that pretty much rhymes!
Anyway, I've been mulling this over myself. make no mistake - I'm in total agreement with all the goals of the declaration, but know that many, many of the 99% are not. We need to focus like a laser on finding a single sentence or phrase which states a goal the 99% can get behind. It has to be something to do with separating the power of wealth and politics. Yes, it needs to be boiled down to a sound byte.
As for the Declaration itself, it is what it is: an evolving mission statement. It states where perhaps many of us would like to go in the future and contains no small amount of utopian spirit. But we must be cautious. There are a lot of people who want money out of politics, but don't want single-payer health care or forgiveness of student loans. With these goals, you are asking much of the population to leap fro A to J when they're still tentative about even going as far as B!
We cannot allow ourselves to be dismissed as intellectual elitists, socialists, or hippies. This is a battle that, once we engage, WE MUST WIN! Therefore, finding common cause seems to me to be the only solution - common cause among ourselves, independent voters, people of all ages, levels of education and income and social groups.
It's a tall order, but I think the answer is staring us in the face.
peace,
Johanna

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Purposes: Preamble vs. Declaration

Post by Mojo on Thu Oct 20, 2011 1:41 pm

I agree with you Johanna about how we need a pithy statement for the preamble to capture the malaise, one that encapsulates the problem of corporate wealth taking over our political system. However, as the the Declaration itself, the laundry list vs. one or two items: Let's face it, the powers that be (PTB) are not going to do anything but ignore us, regardless of which we produce. So what are we really writing here? A platform for a new political party. And political party platforms are laundry lists, covering a lot of issues. Who is going to vote for a party that doesn't have a position on what to do about the health care crisis? the foreclosure crisis? the Fed? As for "single payer," I've never liked the phrase, and most Americans don't know what it means. But if you ask people, "Should government guarantee that all US citizens have access to medical care?" Americans are consistently in favor of this, by 2 to 1 margins. For me, I can't think of a more important issue. And it should be framed as "Medicare for all" not "single payer," because people know what Medicare is. As to forgiveness of student loans, that is a less important issue, but it IS a huge drag on our economy, and one way to stimulate demand would be to forgive the loans.


Johanna wrote:Hey, that pretty much rhymes!
Anyway, I've been mulling this over myself. make no mistake - I'm in total agreement with all the goals of the declaration, but know that many, many of the 99% are not. We need to focus like a laser on finding a single sentence or phrase which states a goal the 99% can get behind. It has to be something to do with separating the power of wealth and politics. Yes, it needs to be boiled down to a sound byte.
As for the Declaration itself, it is what it is: an evolving mission statement. It states where perhaps many of us would like to go in the future and contains no small amount of utopian spirit. But we must be cautious. There are a lot of people who want money out of politics, but don't want single-payer health care or forgiveness of student loans. With these goals, you are asking much of the population to leap fro A to J when they're still tentative about even going as far as B!
We cannot allow ourselves to be dismissed as intellectual elitists, socialists, or hippies. This is a battle that, once we engage, WE MUST WIN! Therefore, finding common cause seems to me to be the only solution - common cause among ourselves, independent voters, people of all ages, levels of education and income and social groups.
It's a tall order, but I think the answer is staring us in the face.
peace,
Johanna

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Re: Federal Reserve

Post by Alstein on Thu Oct 20, 2011 1:52 pm

The Federal reserve needs to be reformed not eliminated.

Without a federal reserve, the power would shift back to the legislature, who is likely to be even more corrupt.


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I see a lot of fast thinking here.

Post by NuclearRadio79 on Thu Oct 20, 2011 2:51 pm

But maybe people are jumping to conclusions WAY too quickly. We need to have our ears to the ground and BUILD consensus first by understanding all the important issues. Michael's push to get something done before the 2012 elections is something that I don't agree with. I don't see how that effects the general mission and movement. We shouldn't cowtow or tip our hats or whatever to the current election/political/system. It's corrupting and should be seen as an absolute last resort. Doing so puts us in danger of becoming another Tea Party Caucus.

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Re: Federal Reserve

Post by Alstein on Thu Oct 20, 2011 2:56 pm

NuclearRadio79 wrote:But maybe people are jumping to conclusions WAY too quickly. We need to have our ears to the ground and BUILD consensus first by understanding all the important issues. Michael's push to get something done before the 2012 elections is something that I don't agree with. I don't see how that effects the general mission and movement. We shouldn't cowtow or tip our hats or whatever to the current election/political/system. It's corrupting and should be seen as an absolute last resort. Doing so puts us in danger of becoming another Tea Party Caucus.

Good point on the consensus, I agree here entirely. I do think we should have a declaration though by the 2012 general election, and maybe start a formal process by Feburary though in order to keep the movement energized, and that in itself will influence the 2012 elections.


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