Electronic Voting Transparency

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Electronic Voting Transparency

Post by idenr on Wed Oct 19, 2011 4:46 am

There is no paper audit trail for electronic voting machines in the event of the need for a recount. We are expected to accept the assurances of the manufacturers that the machines are secure and cannot be hacked. Electronic voting machines ought to create a paper receipt for each vote cast that can be audited by a human being if the election is challenged and a recount required.

Alternatively what do people feel about stopping electronic voting machines?

idenr

Posts: 21
Join date: 2011-10-18
Age: 53
Location: PA-06

http://www.idenrosenthal.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Electronic Voting Transparency

Post by ccbig on Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:04 am

idenr wrote:There is no paper audit trail for electronic voting machines in the event of the need for a recount. We are expected to accept the assurances of the manufacturers that the machines are secure and cannot be hacked. Electronic voting machines ought to create a paper receipt for each vote cast that can be audited by a human being if the election is challenged and a recount required.

Alternatively what do people feel about stopping electronic voting machines?

Touch screen voting machines are too easily corrupted.

But not all electronic voting machines are bad. The bubble style paper where a voter darkens a circle to cast their vote does have a voter paper trail.

ccbig

Posts: 13
Join date: 2011-10-18

Back to top Go down

Electronic voting is critical to direct democracy

Post by RayArrowood on Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:54 am

I think many people will agree that honest electronic voting is critical to direct democracy. How to minimize the risk of tampering with the votes is the real issue. Here is my suggestion on that topic.

Simply requiring a larger majority rule is the easiest way to combat voter fraud. If the majority rule is set at 51%, then a 1% fraud rate can tip the scale one way or the other (pass or not pass). If the majority rule is set at 75% however, then it would take a 25% voter fraud rate to tip the scale, which would be much harder to do covertly.

The other advantage to a larger majority rule, is that we won't pass laws that make 50% of the people happy but disappoint the other 50%. Any proposal that disappoints half the voter population has some serious problems that need to be worked on first before a vote is taken.

Thanks for listening

Ray

RayArrowood

Posts: 233
Join date: 2011-10-18
Age: 63
Location: US Nomadic

http://the-utopian.blogspot.com/

Back to top Go down

Suggestion for language to add to the declaration

Post by nobud on Wed Oct 19, 2011 11:17 am

Americans should have the right to vote without intimidation and tampering. Electronic voting machines should be subject to examination for proper functioning by licensed and qualified independent third parties prior to any election in which they will be used. Proof of these inspections should be posted visibly at every polling location in which they are used. Properly functioning electronic voting machines must produce a paper printout confirming the voter's choices. Districts utilizing electronic voting will provide a mechanism by which discrepancies between a voter's intent and the machine's printout can be included in the final count.

Because the federal government does not issue photo IDs, voters should not be required to present one prior to voting in a national election. Budget cuts at the state level should not be used as an excuse to prevent selected groups of individuals from receiving mail-in ballots.


Last edited by Teri Bidwell on Wed Oct 19, 2011 4:43 pm; edited 1 time in total

nobud

Posts: 82
Join date: 2011-10-18
Location: CO-04

Back to top Go down

Re: Electronic Voting Transparency

Post by kefranklin on Wed Oct 19, 2011 1:39 pm

Open source code for one.

Second when you electronically vote your selections are also printed at the end.

This printed ballot is submitted to election staff (through an anonymous box is fine). This vote is tabulated and compared to the electronic tabulation. Any significant disparity and the election is re-run.

This means extra work. It's only once every 2-4 years. We can handle the workload. Hell it adds jobs.

kefranklin

Posts: 86
Join date: 2011-10-18
Location: VA2

Back to top Go down

Definitely need an "Election Integrity" plank

Post by Mojo on Thu Oct 20, 2011 12:40 am

I favor elimination of all computer balloting, including opti-scans, in favor of hand counted ballots by non-partisans. At a minimum we have got to get corporations out of the vote counting business, we have to have open source code, and unhackable devices, routine checks for fraud during and after elections, and a mandatory paper trail.

Mojo

Posts: 20
Join date: 2011-10-19
Age: 55
Location: Santa Rosa, CA

Back to top Go down

Paper Trail

Post by ccbig on Thu Oct 20, 2011 1:59 am

The only safe course of action is to have a vote paper trail for each ballot cast.

A voter "receipt" is not enough.

The only electronic methods that allow for such a paper trail of each vote and the speed of electronic ballot counting are a fill in the dot method (bubble ballots) like those seen on school test forms or by punch ballots that "punch out" a hole as votes are cast.

After seeing what happened with punch ballots, i.e. the whole "hanging chad" debacle, IMHO the obvious choice comes down to the using the bubble ballot.

Any other form of electronic voting is too easily subject to fraud no matter if the source code is open or closed, who verifies the votes. No computerized system is beyond hacking. The ONLY way to maintain vote count security it to have a paper ballot trail for each and every vote.



Last edited by ccbig on Thu Oct 20, 2011 2:00 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : typo)

ccbig

Posts: 13
Join date: 2011-10-18

Back to top Go down

Election Integrity

Post by RayArrowood on Tue Oct 25, 2011 7:34 pm

You all have valid points and good suggestions for countering voter fraud, but there are organizational ways to reduce or eliminate the risk of voter fraud.

The reason we have voter fraud is because we have a 51% majority rule and only two candidates in the election. Thus, a 1% voter fraud rate can change the outcome of the election, and because we only have two candidates, it is tempting and easy to engage in voter fraud.

Simply increasing the majority rule to 75%, and increasing the number of candidates would both reduce the risk of voter fraud and eliminate the incentive to commit fraud. With a 75% majority rule, it would take a 25% voter fraud rate to change the outcome, so a little fraud that gets past us won't make any difference.

Additionally, if no candidate gets 75% of the votes, we can allow the candidate(s) with the least number of votes to give their votes to another candidate of their choice until someone gets 75%. Who will want to tamper with the vote if they know their fraud could be given to another candidate?

Another advantage to this system besides being simple and fair, is that it will insure that the winner represents the greater will of the public, because the candidates are free to give their votes to any other candidate and will most likely choose the candidate with the closest viewpoint to their own.

RayArrowood

Posts: 233
Join date: 2011-10-18
Age: 63
Location: US Nomadic

http://the-utopian.blogspot.com/

Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum