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Share Ideas

Post by admin on Fri Oct 21, 2011 12:30 am

This is a place for sharing ideas and information about the OWS movement, general politics, economics, etc. Help educate one another so that the movement is guided by logic rather than blind emotion. The better prepared we are, the more we can accomplish.

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Synopsis of specific laws...

Post by astramari on Thu Oct 20, 2011 11:52 pm

As more and more protestors are humiliated on Fox News because they don't know what the Glass-Steagal Act is (I didn't either, until joining this site), It would be nice to have a synopsis of all legislature we take issue with and WHY. I think this would be so helpful. Are there any legal/politico experts out there who would be willing to give these snapshots of information? Just the facts.

Thanks,

Astra

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Re: Share Ideas

Post by randallburns on Fri Oct 21, 2011 12:15 pm

Glass - Steagal repeal removed important regulations on banks. It enabled banks to do things like sell mortgage backed securities so they didn't have to hang onto mortages-and could leave someone else holding the bag.

There is a lot on this-and a lot is subtle. I think in general, what is needed:
folks need to focus on moral issues-not technical issues-and they need to be trained to do that with reporters.

On economics the key issues I see:
fewer jobs for Americans
rich getting richer while the bottom 95% don't
understanding the difference between assets and income-the top 1% starts at above $5 Million in assets
centralization of both political and economic power.

Separating money and politics-including both hard and soft money.

hard money is money given to a candidate
soft money is money spent to indirectly influence the political process and is much harder to regulate. On entire areas of economic policy it can be hard to find anything really neutral or anything that wasn't specifically paid for by someone with an ax to grind. They'll even pay both sides to obscure some small specific point that is very strategic.



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Stick with the Facts

Post by suzencr on Fri Oct 21, 2011 3:19 pm

We have to be clear about what it is we are doing here, what motivated us. The central theme for everyone is the extreme division between the elite 1% who control most of the wealth and the other 99% whose wealth has been extracted from them by policies that benefit the 1%. That means we focus on the the economic policies that allowed this to happen. This approach is based on FACTS NOT OPINIONS, what actually has and is occurring, not what we think about it.

FACT: The uber rich banking cartel and corporations have hijacked the political system and used it to devise legislation that allows them to gamble with toxic debt instruments that have infected the entire world.

FACT: One of the main means of insuring their success has been the central banks headed by the Federal Reserve that has co-opted the Constitutional mandate declaring only Congress via the U.S. Treasury shall be the creator of money. The Federal Reserve Act of 1931 was pushed illegally through Congress without a proper quorum in order for the banks to gain control of the money creation system, whereby the U.S. Treasury procures its money from the banks as a loan. The loan is repaid with interest by our federal taxes.

Fact: The fiat money system based on debt, and its delivery through fractional banking, which allows debt to compound and create further debt, is a vast Ponzi scheme that never takes into account the interest owed on the debts created, which can never be repaid as there will never be enough money to do so.

FACT: Federal income tax on the income of human beings is unconstitutional. The Federal government was never meant to deal directly with human beings except through the states wherein they resided. The federal government was to be funded primarily by an apportioned tax directed at the state level.

It has been a great scam by the central banks and we grew up with it so we do not see it nor understand it. The propaganda has been hugely successful in this regard.

The above facts are most crucial in the ongoing discussion if there is any possibility of creating change. We have to go for the root, not make cosmetic changes by suggesting new forms of taxation or other ways of moving the pieces around on the game board. The board must be swept clean. Otherwise they will have successfully boondoggled us into going back under their hypnotic trance. We have to wake up!

The points made by Ron Paul in his 2012 Presidential Campaign are worth noting because he is the closest thing we've got to a viable shift in policy and he is a man of the people. Dennis Kucinich is also a man of the people. Both would be willing to support removing the rogue elements that instituted our debt-based Ponzi-scheme economy.

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Focus on the Primary Issue

Post by suzencr on Fri Oct 21, 2011 3:32 pm

A major problem I see in the movement is the attempt to address too many varying issues at once and not stick to the one primary issue that got this thing rolling in the first place, not just in America, but world-wide. It is the vast gap between those who are wealthy and their corporate agenda to to rape and pillage the world to satisfy their greed for immense profit and power. The economic policies that allowed this begin with the central banking system that uses debt creation to amass wealth. In our country, the lynch pin is the private Federal Reserve, which is not at all governmental organization but a private bank. Pulling the plug on this system should be our main focus, the rest will fall into place. If we don't get this now, we will slowly be diffused into numerous arguments and dialogues that further fragment us.

Think about what would benefit everyone, EVERYONE ON EARTH, and focus there.

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Re: Share Ideas

Post by Spider on Sat Oct 22, 2011 12:22 am

astramari wrote:As more and more protestors are humiliated on Fox News because they don't know what the Glass-Steagal Act is (I didn't either, until joining this site), It would be nice to have a synopsis of all legislature we take issue with and WHY. I think this would be so helpful. Are there any legal/politico experts out there who would be willing to give these snapshots of information? Just the facts.

Thanks,

Astra

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass%E2%80%93Steagall_Act for starters. What else is there? Citizen's United?

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Re: Share Ideas

Post by kathyhoganloryer on Tue Nov 01, 2011 5:06 pm

To group: Here's a good link for ways to avoid common problems in consensus, put out by the National Coalition for Dialog & Deliberation, pretty timely for Occupy'ers, hope you find it useful:

Link: http://ncdd.org/rc/item/6044

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Some historical links

Post by Ramon on Mon Nov 07, 2011 3:57 pm

I can see a direct connection from the Occupy movement of today to the San Francisco Diggers and Open Land/Open Gate rural commune movement in the late sixties. Similar methods were used to close us down: punitive use of the health and building codes, injunctive procedures to ban people from the ranches, and finally the bulldozers were brought in to raze all the homes -- a total of four times on two ranches. Over 100 home-grown structures ultimately were destroyed.
In 1976 we published a scrapbook of all the Morningstar clippings and photos - now available on line here:
http://badabamama.com/morningstar-scrapbook.html

And Manifesto II captures the spirit of an organically evolving community:
http://badabamama.com/manifesto-two.html

You can read a 24-chapter history of the two ranches here:
http://www.diggers.org/home_free.htm

A statement of our belief system here:
http://badabamama.com/MStrfaith.html
A brief quote:
Four Planetary Missions
OPEN EARTH, OPEN AIR, OPEN FIRE, OPEN WATER
OPEN EARTH: The opening of lands as sanctuaries for the One, naked, nameless, homeless, harmless. Land purification by replenishment of the soil, invisible land use and Voluntary Primitivism. Welcoming the divine nature in our children.
OPEN AIR: The opening of all communications channels. Open airing of feelings, open airways, airwaves. Air purification by planting trees and gardens. No more air pollution! The wind of the spirit speaks in the treetops. Listen!
OPEN FIRE: The opening of all energies to all. Fire purification of the spirit in worship. The opening of our bodies and hearts to the sun.
OPEN WATER: Open seas, oceans, rivers, streams, hot springs. We are water brothers & sisters with all life. Open emotions. The purification of water. Stop pollution.

In the long run, it's all about a land reform movement of the sort being fought in various Central and South American countries, except that we're so urbanized in the USA that we've forgotten how humans were designed to live with other species in small encampments and villages. Quoting Limeliter and Morningstar founder Lou Gottlieb: "The heart of the beast is the alienation of real property - i.e. the carving up of Mother Earth's sweet breast and selling off the pieces."
The Native Americans thought that White Men were insane when they tried to purchase land. The White Men were. We still are. Time to wake up!

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Re: Share Ideas

Post by kathyhoganloryer on Mon Nov 07, 2011 6:07 pm

I'm with yoiu in spirit, Ramon, but this is not a land reform movement, in my view. I've lived in collectives, belonged to co-ops, the whole thing, and it's grand, but that's not what I see the occupy movement being about at all.

Maybe I'm being a bit too immediate and concrete, but the kinds of things I'd like to see the movement work towards are things like reinstituting Glass Steagall, letting the Bush tax cuts expire, instituting a financial transaction tax, and extending the 7% FICA tax to people making over $110,000 (that's the currect cap, after $110,000, there's no FICA tax). These measures being concrete things that would help chip away at the huge wealth disparity.

Real campaign finance reform, absolutely necessary, the kind that caps contributions, and makes donations over, say $500, public. Somehow, the Citizens United decision has to be undone by whatever means the law allows, it's such a democracy killer.

A call for massive infrastructure investments, and other investments in manufacturing and industries (and training), to create jobs.

I wouldn't oppose the inclusion of things addressing the environment and education, but I think the emergency stuff (bankruptcies, foreclosures, huge student loan debt, no health insurance, no jobs, food shortages for the poor) are the kinds of immediate "hair on fire" catastrophes that brought people out to the streets.

Change in these areas requires that the majority of policy makers be able to make policies that favor people, and not the 1%. That's the real challenge, how do we wrest control of our elected officials and the public agenda away from the corporations.

I respect the more utopian visions of folks in the movement, but, from my perspective, that's not at the core of what I think the occupy movement is most immediately riled up about.


Last edited by kathyhoganloryer on Mon Nov 07, 2011 6:12 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : typos)

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Re: Share Ideas

Post by TuSpd on Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:51 pm

kathyhoganloryer wrote:Maybe I'm being a bit too immediate and concrete, but the kinds of things I'd like to see the movement work towards are things like reinstituting Glass Steagall, letting the Bush tax cuts expire, instituting a financial transaction tax, and extending the 7% FICA tax to people making over $110,000 (that's the currect cap, after $110,000, there's no FICA tax). These measures being concrete things that would help chip away at the huge wealth disparity.

Real campaign finance reform, absolutely necessary, the kind that caps contributions, and makes donations over, say $500, public. Somehow, the Citizens United decision has to be undone by whatever means the law allows, it's such a democracy killer.

A call for massive infrastructure investments, and other investments in manufacturing and industries (and training), to create jobs.

I wouldn't oppose the inclusion of things addressing the environment and education, but I think the emergency stuff (bankruptcies, foreclosures, huge student loan debt, no health insurance, no jobs, food shortages for the poor) are the kinds of immediate "hair on fire" catastrophes that brought people out to the streets.

Change in these areas requires that the majority of policy makers be able to make policies that favor people, and not the 1%. That's the real challenge, how do we wrest control of our elected officials and the public agenda away from the corporations.

I respect the more utopian visions of folks in the movement, but, from my perspective, that's not at the core of what I think the occupy movement is most immediately riled up about.

I agree with you wholeheartedly in what you stated, and I would like to add that I am also very much in favor of using some of the best of Bill Black's ideas concerning his ideas on fixing the mess this country is in. There a some real good videos of Bill Black on YouTube, etc., and he has some very impressive credentials too. Everyone who's interested should watch videos of Bill Black.

http://neweconomicperspectives.blogspot.com/2011/10/bill-black.html

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Re: Share Ideas

Post by PDT on Mon Nov 07, 2011 9:39 pm

Will watch these. Have to add that, it is the fact that our elected governments have been too slow to act on these issues that people are now in the streets. I have a sense that they fear that the government we brought to power in 2008 is going to slip away, mostly due to that government's reluctance to act when they had the chance.

We need all of the above mentioned, but it is three years too late in coming. I think there is more a sense of frustration and desperation out there than there is any great utopian vision. Though it may exist, it may in fact be played up a bit by those who want to detract from the movement.

This is about directing our government's attention away from any compromise when it comes to our basic human rights and freedoms. In 2009 Obama came out strong, but his vision, the one he got elected on, has been watered down and now stalled. People want to know how this has happened. It's not supposed to work like this. The anger is now directed at all of government, not just one party.

Perhaps it is time for a new party. I don't know. Perhaps the whole idea of waiting is pointless. Why? People want another option. Now.

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Re: Share Ideas

Post by kathyhoganloryer on Mon Nov 07, 2011 10:45 pm

PDT, I agree with everything you say, except I'm not entirely sold on a 3rd party (neither for or against the idea at this point).

The problem is that the 1%'ers and their minions can dump billions into buying election results (with a better than 90% success rate). Until that problem is fixed, I don't think it will be possible for any party to function for the people in any meaningful way. Right now, those who can't be bought are crushed, except for the tiny 10% who manage to squeak through.


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Re: Share Ideas

Post by TuSpd on Mon Nov 07, 2011 11:00 pm

kathyhoganloryer wrote:
The problem is that the 1%'ers and their minions can dump billions into buying election results (with a better than 90% success rate). Until that problem is fixed, I don't think it will be possible for any party to function for the people in any meaningful way. Right now, those who can't be bought are crushed, except for the tiny 10% who manage to squeak through.

That makes sense and I agree with you. Now the logical question might be, how can the 99% fix this problem.
Do we need to admend the constitution? What about the Supreme Court, will or can they block us? Etc...

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Re: Share Ideas

Post by kathyhoganloryer on Mon Nov 07, 2011 11:16 pm

The conservative votes on the Supreme Court gave us Citizens United, which made the whole problem of campaign money so much worse, so I don't think we can count on them to ride to the rescue.

Desperation about how to fix the worst of our out of control problems is how we all got here. The challege will be to see if the hundreds of thousands of us in support of the occupy movement can keep the pressure on to transform our democracy, a tall order, but that's what we're up against.

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Re: Share Ideas

Post by Ramon on Tue Nov 08, 2011 8:28 pm

kathyhoganloryer wrote:I'm with you in spirit, Ramon, but this is not a land reform movement, in my view.
Okay, I tend to get a little over-enthused when I see some of our old dreams coming into three dimensions.
I'm gonna spend some time down with the Occupiers and get a better feel of things.
Thanks, all!

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