Federal Reserve

deezthugs wrote:People take the initiative to dissolve the Federal Reserve and require the Federal Government to take the reigns of Sovereignty and create the People's money.

I agree with this, but TPTB will just run circles around any such silver-bullet demands. Even if the FR was dissolved--without honest, truly representational government, nothing will have changed.

The key is to get corporate gifts, money, and revolving-door crony capitalism out of government so elected leaders can do the job we expect them to. Once freed of corporate influence, they can abolish the Federal Reserve and ensure a just system replaces it, and address the many other ills in society as well. The SYSTEM has to be FIXED--and it will not happen until ALL corporate influence is removed from government. THIS IS THE KEY ISSUE TO FOCUS ON.

Lets honor those in the trenches who have worked so hard to write these Declarations, and not arm-chair-quarterback their work by dismissing it and saying something else entirely should be done. THAT approach will ensure NOTHING is achieved.

Declarations 1 through 5 will do it, are unassailable, and acceptable I believe by the majority of Americans.

Understanding the fed, what it is, and how it works and why it is really a relatively useless relic of the Gold Standard.

http://pragcap.com/resources/understanding-modern-monetary-system

deezthugs wrote:I have set up a Tumblr blog called "Money System" as a curated set of links, videos, quotes and snippets of Money Knowledge: http://is.gd/qDUyPd

I looked at some of the information and videos and most of the stuff you have there is misinformation and myths, it is not an accurate description of the USA's monetary reality.

Myth #1 -The U.S. government needs to be more like a household and save money before it can spend.

Myth #2 – The U.S. government is “running out of money”.

Myth #3 – The USA is becoming the next Greece! We are bankrupt!

Myth #4 – We are Zimbabwe or the Weimar Republic and hyperinflation is coming.

Myth #5 – China will stop buying our debt and crash the bond market.

Myth # 6 – Just wait until those bond vigilantes make yields rise and bankrupt America!

Myth # 7 – Interest on the national debt is unsustainable and will inevitably bankrupt America.

Myth #8 – We are the reserve currency and if we lose that status the dollar will crash.

Myth #9 – When the bond auctions start failing the U.S. government will crash and burn.

The accurate, true, and time tested information is here:
http://pragcap.com/10-economic-myths-that-persist
http://pragcap.com/resources/understanding-modern-monetary-system

William58 wrote:

deezthugs wrote:People take the initiative to dissolve the Federal Reserve and require the Federal Government to take the reigns of Sovereignty and create the People's money.

I agree with this, but TPTB will just run circles around any such silver-bullet demands. Even if the FR was dissolved--without honest, truly representational government, nothing will have changed.

The key is to get corporate gifts, money, and revolving-door crony capitalism out of government so elected leaders can do the job we expect them to. Once freed of corporate influence, they can abolish the Federal Reserve and ensure a just system replaces it, and address the many other ills in society as well. The SYSTEM has to be FIXED--and it will not happen until ALL corporate influence is removed from government. THIS IS THE KEY ISSUE TO FOCUS ON.

Lets honor those in the trenches who have worked so hard to write these Declarations, and not arm-chair-quarterback their work by dismissing it and saying something else entirely should be done. THAT approach will ensure NOTHING is achieved.

Declarations 1 through 5 will do it, are unassailable, and acceptable I believe by the majority of Americans.

My main point is that until the citizenry understand who holds the power and direct all resources and energy at the center of said power, there will be no change.

The political system is completely corrupt to the core. The only way to take back power of for and by the people is by scaring the living shit out of the occupants of Wall Street and Congress.

Change will not come from within a corrupt system.

I think the US will economically (and possibly politically) collapse before there is real change for the better. OWS has given me hope, but I sense a lot of fragmented energy that is driving at secondary and tertiary problems.

Again, education is key here. Until you really study how money is created it will not dawn on you how dangerous the monopoly of money creation is - and that it is held by private interests with private priorities.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLF239D29F3A323F4B

The Federal reserve is not private.

It’s important to note that the Fed is an act of Congress. The citizens of the USA own the Federal Reserve. NOT the banks. If we wanted to impose our will over the Federal Reserve we very well could. The myth of independence is intended to create the perception of no political bias. They might maintain some political independence, but the Fed is very much a part of the US government.

Get the facts first, then move forward with change!
http://pragcap.com/resources/understanding-modern-monetary-system

There are two basic proposals to deal with the Federal Reserve:

Ron Paul wants to abolish the fed and return to a gold standard. I suspect this would send the price of gold sharply upward benefiting those that hold gold and mining stocks. A deflationary monetary policy can be rather problematic(this caused demise of the British liberal party).

Steven Zarlenga of the American Monetary Institute(www.monetary.org) wants to formally nationalize the fed and place it under political control.

i personally favor the second approach-but I think it needs some up front safeguards and we need to make congress more democratic and less corrupt so it can actually handle this.

Post Gold Standard wrote:The Federal reserve is not private.

It’s important to note that the Fed is an act of Congress. The citizens of the USA own the Federal Reserve. NOT the banks. If we wanted to impose our will over the Federal Reserve we very well could. The myth of independence is intended to create the perception of no political bias. They might maintain some political independence, but the Fed is very much a part of the US government.

Get the facts first, then move forward with change!
http://pragcap.com/resources/understanding-modern-monetary-system

This *appears* to seem technically correct, but I question your premises and motivation:

"Federal reserve banks are not federal instrumentalities for purposes of a Federal Tort Claims Act, but are independent, privately owned and locally controlled corporations in light of fact that direct supervision and control of each bank is exercised by board of directors, federal reserve banks, though heavily regulated, are locally controlled by their member banks, banks are listed neither as "wholly owned" government corporations nor as "mixed ownership" corporations; federal reserve banks receive no appropriated funds from Congress and the banks are empowered to sue and be sued in their own names. . . ."

"The common claim that the Fed is accountable to the government, because it is required to report to Congress on its activities annually, is incorrect. The reports to Congress mean little unless what the Chairman reports can be verified by complete records. From its founding to this day, the Fed has never undergone a complete independent audit. Congress time after time has requested that the Fed voluntarily submit to a complete audit, and every time, it refuses."

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=8518

Audit sure, more transparency sure. All I'm saying is if the people in Congress asking the questions, the folks at the fed, and the average citizen, and the average economists don't fully understand the monetary operations, so then the change, whatever it may be will have unintended consequences.

The first step is education, then change. It would be like attempting to fix your car before first reading the service manual.

Here's a good start: http://pragcap.com/resources/understanding-modern-monetary-system

Gold standard won't work because it is extremely small compared to the overall economy. We can use units of energy such as the kilowatt-hour (kWh) which can be backed by real energy reserves such as electricity output, gold in a vault, oil reserves, etc. We can value labour based on the energy used. For example, a specialized doctor uses X calories to perform a surgery plus additional energy to get trained so the doctor gets maybe 50kWh for one hour of work. The doctor can then trade that for anything from gold to paying their electric bill to gas in their car.

The only drawback is there is no profit in it for people who don't work currently and live off of unearned income, e.g. bankers and CEOs, trust fundees, etc.

The major bonus is that the more you work the more you can buy so the guy who works 70 hours waiting tables might have more "money" than a doctor who works 10 hours a week.

I think this is actually the ultimate endgame of the bitcoin currency after it gets all the kinks worked out.

Here's a good video about the fed and financial reform from an ex-regulator and current UKMC economics professor.

http://neweconomicperspectives.blogspot.com/2011/10/bill-black.html

For those who want to dig deep and get all the information:

The Sanders Report on the GAO Audit on Major Conflicts of Interest at the Federal Reserve

http://sanders.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/101911%20-%20THE%20SANDERS%20REPORT%20ON%20THE%20GAO%20AUDIT%20ON%20MAJOR%20CONFLICTS%20OF%20INTEREST%20AT%20THE%20FEDERAL%20RESERVE.pdf

United States Government Accountability Office
GAO
Report to Congressional Addressees
FEDERAL RESERVE BANK GOVERNANCE
Opportunities Exist to Broaden Director Recruitment Efforts and Increase Transparency
http://sanders.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/d1218%20%282%29.pdf

I recommend reading Jamie Walton's review of state banking, if you are considering state banks as a solution to our financial system.

randallburns wrote:There are two basic proposals to deal with the Federal Reserve:

Ron Paul wants to abolish the fed and return to a gold standard. I suspect this would send the price of gold sharply upward benefiting those that hold gold and mining stocks. A deflationary monetary policy can be rather problematic(this caused demise of the British liberal party).

Steven Zarlenga of the American Monetary Institute(www.monetary.org) wants to formally nationalize the fed and place it under political control.

i personally favor the second approach-but I think it needs some up front safeguards and we need to make congress more democratic and less corrupt so it can actually handle this.

Randall,

That is an excellent review of the current proposals to end the Fed and take back control of our currency. We should support Dennis Kucinich's HR 2990, which mirrors Stephen Zarlenga's solution!

JCB wrote:

randallburns wrote:There are two basic proposals to deal with the Federal Reserve:

Ron Paul wants to abolish the fed and return to a gold standard.

Randall,

That is an excellent review of the current proposals to end the Fed and take back control of our currency. We should support Dennis Kucinich's HR 2990, which mirrors Stephen Zarlenga's solution!

I'm pretty sure RP is more interested in sound money - whatever it may be backed by - and to remove the monopoly around money creation. We should think about the possibilities of competing currencies.

deezthugs wrote:

JCB wrote:

randallburns wrote:There are two basic proposals to deal with the Federal Reserve:

Ron Paul wants to abolish the fed and return to a gold standard.

Randall,

That is an excellent review of the current proposals to end the Fed and take back control of our currency. We should support Dennis Kucinich's HR 2990, which mirrors Stephen Zarlenga's solution!

I'm pretty sure RP is more interested in sound money - whatever it may be backed by - and to remove the monopoly around money creation. We should think about the possibilities of competing currencies.

Aristotle: "Money exists not by nature but by law."

My questions for you are:

Can we trust the market to provide us with stable, sound currencies that meet the needs of the people and our economy?

Can we trust the market to invest our savings and privatize social security?

Can we trust the market to build our national highway system?

Can we trust the market to prevent the accumulation of monopolistic, hereditary wealth?

Can we trust the market to prevent and clean up man-made disasters, like the Deepwater Horizon spill?

If can't trust the market, then who can we trust?

I think the key is we can't trust anyone. That is why informed citizens, media, government, regulation, over-site and prosecution are a must.

I find these comments very curious because they usually mean gold: "interested in sound money - whatever it may be backed by".

Let's say we go back to the gold standard. Now imagine a world with known quantities of gold = 1,000 tons. Now imagine a new mine that is discovered and they easily extract 1,000 tons of gold in one year. What happens to the value of gold if the mine just holds it? Now what happens if they circulate / sell it?

The real way to achieve a stable value currency is to have the Government be the Employer of Last resort (ELR). Offer everyone willing and able to work an $8 an hour job (doing whatever, cleaning roads, maint., etc). This will set the floor for wages, but it will also hold the value of the money as well. Since you then would know that $8 is equal to one hour of unskilled labor. Plus it puts the value of the money right where it should be. You trade your labor for money and later spend your money for products and services. Just setting the price of this one thing, unskilled labor, will help hold all other prices in line and at full employment I might add.

During recessions more people work for the government and during boom times very few if any would, but this would also reduce or almost remove boom and bust cycles (this also would eliminate the need for unemployment benefits).

The ELR concept is explained completely here: http://moslereconomics.com/mandatory-readings/full-employment-and-price-stability/

Post Gold Standard wrote:
The real way to achieve a stable value currency is to have the Government be the Employer of Last resort (ELR). Offer everyone willing and able to work an $8 an hour job (doing whatever, cleaning roads, maint., etc). This will set the floor for wages, but it will also hold the value of the money as well. Since you then would know that $8 is equal to one hour of unskilled labor. Plus it puts the value of the money right where it should be. You trade your labor for money and later spend your money for products and services. Just setting the price of this one thing, unskilled labor, will help hold all other prices in line and at full employment I might add.

You are talking about currency, not money. At least Gold is money and has been so for more than 5000 years. Your above description sounds like an extreme form of Socialism, with fiat currency backed by sweat. I do not seeing that working out. I don't see your scenario keeping a central bank from printing at will.

We need a Federal Government that is much much smaller to prevent the kind of wholesale kleptocracy that has been going on for decades - one that does not have a large checkbook and cannot hand out no-bid multi-billion dollar contracts to pay for things that benefit only the contractor.

Basing the value of money/currency on a commodity mined and hoarded vs. the value of human labor.

If you would call ELR an extreme form of socialism, what do you call unemployment benefits (paying people while they are not working)? The difference between the two is one involves real output. work and societal benefit and the other does not.

http://moslereconomics.com/mandatory-readings/

"I don't see your scenario keeping a central bank from printing at will."
Correct me if I am wrong, but I think you might be thinking that QE1 & QE2 involved the Fed printing a bunch of money and debasing our currency.

The Fed does not print money - The facts do matter: http://pragcap.com/read-fed-print-money

http://moslereconomics.com/2008/12/17/quantitative-easing-for-dummies/