We need only one demand

Page 5 of 5 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Re: One Demand

Post by JCB on Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:38 pm

RAB wrote:This thread should NOT be combined with the Federal Reserve thread, because just putting the Fed under control of the Congress (as the Constitution prescribes) will not solve the problem. The issue with Kucinich's bill is that it is the American Monetary Institutes' prescription, which is a top-down, Soviet-style model in which the national government would be the only entity that creates new money.

If you look at North Dakota -- which is the only state that owns its own bank, the Bank of North Dakota (BND), and which has the lowest unemployment, biggest budget surplus, zero bank failures, and most community banks per capita in the U.S. -- the BND partners with the local banks to create liquidity on Main Street.

The problem is not fractional reserve lending, it's fractional reserve lending controlled by private interests, and the compound interest charges.

Like Kucinich, Ron Paul wants to end the Fed, but he would put us on the gold standard, which would give back control of money to the same people who now control it. Money is not a commodity; it is a means of accounting for the value we create through labor (and associated production, e.g., machines and computers that we created from natural resources). Creating money is not inflationary if it represents value being created. Interest and other financial legerdemain is inflationary, because they don't represent value.

I am glad that RAB has drilled up so much enthusiasm for reforming our money system, which is the essential first step if we seek to take our country back.

Unfortunately, except for correctly noting that money is not a commodity and that creating debt-free money is not inflationary, RAB is completely wrong.

The problem is the unconstitutional fractional reserve lending pyramid scheme, no matter whether it’s controlled by banks, states, or anybody else.

State banks would contribute no more than 1% of the needed revenues to fulfill state budget holes. State banks would not stimulate local economies. North Dakota homeowners did not weather the subprime mortgage crisis. North Dakota’s economic fortunes are a result of its relatively large oil and gas sector and its small population.

State banks would perpetuate the debt-based fractional reserve lending system. State banks would align the interests of states with the banking sector. State banks would do nothing to reduce the criminal behavior of our banking sector and it will on affirm the eminence of our banks in our political system. You cannot solve criminality through competition. You cannot pay off debt with more debt-based money.

RAB characterizes Dennis Kucinich’s HR 2990 of placing the money creation power in the US Treasury as “a Soviet-style model.” Do you consider public water and electric utilities to be dangerous government monopolies? Are you disturbed by the federal government’s monopoly over social security? Money is an abstract social power based in law- a public utility. It cannot be justly issued by anyone but the government! Our government today has the “Soviet-style” power to indebt our future generations indefinitely by borrowing unlimited amounts to fund today’s wars. Tolerating our government’s prerogative to put all future generations into debt-slavery is unconscionable.

Dennis Kucinch’s HR 2990 is the only real solution, which takes the power to issue money back from the banks to the people. The only solution is one that ends fractional reserve banking. Why non-bankers would be wedded to this idea of “banking for the people,” that would only extend this illegal, criminal system further into the statehouses is beyond me.

JCB

Posts: 14
Join date: 2011-10-28

Back to top Go down

Re: We need only one demand

Post by RAB on Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:09 pm

We agree that debt-slavery is the issue, but I am disturbed by the distortions in the above response.

North Dakota’s economic fortunes are a result of its relatively large oil and gas sector and its small population.

If this were true, then Texas, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, and Alaska would not be underwater. Analysis shows that the greatest contribution to North Dakota's solvency is the policies of the publicly owned Bank of North Dakota; if this were not true, why would you be arguing for a publicly owned bank function at the national level?

Our government today has the “Soviet-style” power to indebt our future generations indefinitely by borrowing unlimited amounts to fund today’s wars. Tolerating our government’s prerogative to put all future generations into debt-slavery is unconscionable.

Government? The government is owned by the financiers. It is just a subsidiary of their corporations. We need a system that creates a dialectic between national and local money flow. The AMI written Kucinich bill does not account for this.

What you call "fractional reserve lending" is an outmoded concept. Yes, the private banks are selling us money that they create out of thin air, but the problems with this system are: 1) It's based on usury; and 2) it's operated in the private interest.

Creating currency based on the full faith and credit of the people is similar, except that it is done in the public interest and it could be done without interest. It worked for the colonies. According to Ben Franklin, there was no poverty in American until the British banks got Parliament to prohibit the colony's from printing their own money. This is the real reason for the American Revolution. There is nothing inherently wrong with fiat money, if it is issued by a public entity and if it is roughly equal to the value of what it is funding. Lincoln averted paying Wall Street 24 to 36 percent interest by printing Greenbacks. The devaluation of this currency, and the Continental (printed by the Continental Congress) was because the British banks counterfeited these currencies and speculated in them.

Such a means is not debt-slavery; it is credit based prosperity.

I will add more details later, but I've got to run.

RAB

Posts: 29
Join date: 2011-10-21
Location: CO-02

Back to top Go down

Challenge and then end the systemic dysfunction preventing representational governance

Post by johnmulkins on Sun Oct 30, 2011 3:45 am

Challenge and then end the systemic dysfunction preventing representational governance

Unless we are forming a break away Country, issues will always arise until we dismantle the systemic dysfunction blocking real progress on the issues. The intentional undermining of our elections, and our media, is the consequent AND result of the way we (don,t) control corporations and (don't) have policies which reflect the will of the People. Money in politics is only part of the problem, one leg of the corporatocracy.

Draft resolutions which reform our Corporate Governance laws, refresh our Media, revitalize our Elections, and brings sunlight to our policy-making, and you defeat the cabal using the system against us. Do this in D.C. before the summer recess of 2012 and we will be the political force in America. We could dominate the national dialog going into the election.

If Congress refuses to grant us a more representational and democratic Republic, then they can come home and hear about it from their constituents. If they agree to theses reforms, we all win big. If not, we establish our own institution to govern, like they did in S Africa, New Zealand, Norway and Tunisia, Egypt and soon, America!

This proposal for a People's Congress is already on line and can be used, copied, amended or ignored by Occupy if we like. Because PC believes in the process and goals so far identified by the Occupy, the Peoples Congress fully endorses the Occupy Movement and it's decisions.

The link to the PC is here:
http://peoplescongress.org/

The means to establish a new institution for our own governance is here:
http://peoplescongress.org/2011/10/introducing-idea-people%E2%80%99s-convention/

Have a good time with this one! It's very central to the planning. Would love to talk with you as well since it's so much more effective. John 510-381-3863









J789 wrote:I agree with all your demands, but the only problem is there are too many of them.

One question will be, does all these demands really represents the 99% of the people? A lot of these are social demands which probably would not be popular among the conservatives. Some will have different view about the war and the Medicare for example.

Why not just focus on one demand: Cut the influence of Corporation on our politicians. One demand, clear and simple. I personally cannot think of one group that will oppose to get corporation out of politics. Except perhaps the politicians and corporations themselves. This seems like a demand that will be acceptable to the general public, left wings or right wings, the true 99% of the people. A demand, people without even knowing the details, will wants to join.

I know it is not easy for all the groups and organizations, with their own concerns, to agree on one single goal. But think about this: once this single goal is reached, then can our other issues be heard without the interruption of the corporation.

There is one nice post regarding this issue:
http://occupywallst.org/forum/our-1st-demand-needs-to-be/

If you have an hour to spare, watch this. Its worth your time:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gpbfY-atMk&feature=mh_lolz&list=LLu-lOP79o3J0Zj12Q75yy8w

johnmulkins

Posts: 23
Join date: 2011-10-23
Location: CA-13

Back to top Go down

Re: We need only one demand

Post by Guest on Sun Oct 30, 2011 2:29 pm

Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo Ban giogo

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: We need only one demand

Post by RAB on Sun Oct 30, 2011 4:39 pm

JCB wrote on Friday:

North Dakota homeowners did not weather the subprime mortgage crisis.

Could you forward your date on this. The Bank of North Dakota had no investments in the derivatives market and the State of North Dakota currently ranks 49th in foreclosures. (http://www.realtytrac.com/mapsearch/us.html).

RAB

Posts: 29
Join date: 2011-10-21
Location: CO-02

Back to top Go down

Page 5 of 5 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum