Has this Working Group been approved by the GA in NYC?

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Has this Working Group been approved by the GA in NYC?

Post by citizendeb on Wed Oct 19, 2011 2:16 am

I'm reading some things about this working group not having been approved by the GA. I'm not sure if that's accurate or not, but if it is, I would suggest renaming it if your intention is to split from OWS. The death of the movement as a whole will be when people or groups co-opt it without going through the agreed upon process and gaining consensus of the excruciating but necessary general assembly. Chris Hedges warned of this and the only reason the Civil Rights Movement and women's suffrage were successful is because those participating did not put forth their personal agendas and stayed true to the movement's agreed upon agendas.

Please be very careful. I'm already seeing things in the media attributing certain behaviors, actions and statements to OWS as a whole that in some cases are obviously not, and in some cases likely not applicable.

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Re: Has this Working Group been approved by the GA in NYC?

Post by lmnop on Wed Oct 19, 2011 1:35 pm

I agree with citizen deb. The man responsible for this went to the GA and announced he was starting a working group called the Demands Working Group. They did not approve the list of demands or even the notion of having a list of demands. They did not approve on or vote on the delegates idea. None of this has been approved by the NYCGA or any other GA anywhere. So, reader beware. This forum is fostering some great discussions, but the fact remains that this working group is just a working group that was formed like two days ago.

The list of demands on here never passed a consensus vote. I believe if they were presented, they would not pass a consensus vote. I also suspect that the person who drafted this knows that and is over riding the voice of the GA to push his own agenda. If this is not so, I challenge him to bring this to the GA as a proposal and see if it passes.

Your entire website is misleading people to assume that this passed the NYCGA. Let's be honest here, It did NOT.

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Re: Has this Working Group been approved by the GA in NYC?

Post by Guest on Wed Oct 19, 2011 1:52 pm

Here is the page the NYC GA put up:http://www.nycga.net/members/the99declaration/profile/

There is no process to approve a working group.

When the working group actually proposes something, the WG "reports back" and the GA votes on it. We are not ready to do that yet.

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Re: Has this Working Group been approved by the GA in NYC?

Post by lmnop on Wed Oct 19, 2011 2:03 pm

okay, then, will you put something to that effect on the home page?
for example instead of simply saying:
The purpose of this Working Group is to debate, organize and implement the 99% Declaration which contains a Petition for the Redress of Grievances and an Action Plan:

You could just change it to say:

"The purpose of this Working Group is to debate & organize the 99% Declaration which contains a Petition for the Redress of Grievances and when it is ready, present it to the NYCGA for a consensus vote. If it is passed we will implement the strategies laid forth in the Action Plan.

Please help us to formulate the Declaration to get it ready for a consensus vote."

That would clearly state what is going on (which is a great forum for debating important topics) and end any confusion that these demands are already approved.

thanks for listening

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Re: Has this Working Group been approved by the GA in NYC?

Post by astramari on Wed Oct 19, 2011 7:34 pm

Perhaps, the NYCGA should report to us. By the very nature of their name, they are representing NEW YORK. This group intends to represent the WHOLE. We are all on the same side, are we not? And, before anyone says I'm ungrateful, I absolutely appreciate that NY started the occupation, but it has become bigger than that and rather than claim ownership, perhaps we should ban together. New York is just one city.

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Not official General Asembly Site

Post by davidscameracraft on Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:17 pm

Simply put. We have a new website. nycga.net with a forum. The internet working group spent many hours putting this site together so everyone has a voice. All groups have access.

Why is this group not on the consensus web site?

I have sat down with the internet working group. I have sat down with media and PR. For many hours to understand, vote through consensus and plan as a group our next steps. Please join with the nyc general assembly and move this very valuable discussion and direct action to the consensus website.

David

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And if the General Assembly In NY Rejects The Action Plan Then What?

Post by Guest on Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:27 pm

I will put it to a vote

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Re: Has this Working Group been approved by the GA in NYC?

Post by lmnop on Thu Oct 20, 2011 1:54 am

Perhaps, the NYCGA should report to us. By the very nature of their name, they are representing NEW YORK. This group intends to represent the WHOLE. We are all on the same side, are we not? And, before anyone says I'm ungrateful, I absolutely appreciate that NY started the occupation, but it has become bigger than that and rather than claim ownership, perhaps we should ban together. New York is just one city.

In response to your reply: When I posted the above post, this site was claiming to be part of the NYCGA
and in doing so, my point was simple. Truth in advertising, basically. If you claim to be part of something, really be part of it by gaining a consensus vote from the body you claim to represent. It was not a territorial demand or some claim based on the movement supposedly starting in nyc. (the roots were from egypt among other nations, but that is besides the point)

My request was simple. It appears as though the admin for this group listened to mine and others request because it no longer states that this is a working group of the nycga. That much I can see and so take this to mean that the request was honored. So thank you.

I would encourage you still, admin or admins to join with the nyc general asssembly to get feedback on your mission and list of demands. Or the DC Ga or the Detroit GA or .... well just about any GA you can get to.
The reason I am encouraging you to do this is because that is what this movement is based on, a consensus model. I don't believe you really can achieve consensus through the internet. It's kind of beautiful that way.

If you are putting things to a vote, I wonder, if my vote counts. Or am I banned from voting because you only want people who agree with you to vote? I attempted to access the poll and it said this:
You have been banned from this group by the group moderator (Yahoo! ID banned: lmnop). You may not join the group the99declaration. [b]

dear admin, can you explain to the good people why I am being banned from your democratic process?

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Re: Has this Working Group been approved by the GA in NYC?

Post by idenr on Thu Oct 20, 2011 8:19 am

I'm very happy to participate in this effort whether or not it is an official working group approved by consensus of the NYCGA. I see there is a 99 Declaration Group available on the official nycga.net groups web page which sort of implies there is a connection in some form. Maybe there is a principle such as "diversity of action"? within the core principles that says we don't need to be consensus approved to carry on. Just reading the Principles of Solidarity Working Draft on nycga.net that isn't there but I believe I read something referring to it when it was discussed at GA after the arrests on the Brooklyn Bridge during the Direct Action report back.

Nonetheless - we would of course be better off to reach out to every GA all over everywhere to publicize our efforts and ask for their participation since what we are essentially asking for is for them to be the people who are part of a National General Assembly drawn from the whole country. Have I made a mistake in my assumptions?

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Re: Has this Working Group been approved by the GA in NYC?

Post by astramari on Thu Oct 20, 2011 8:30 am

I agree. That is the goal, reach out to everyone so we're all on the same page, I think that's in the works.


idenr wrote:I'm very happy to participate in this effort whether or not it is an official working group approved by consensus of the NYCGA. I see there is a 99 Declaration Group available on the official nycga.net groups web page which sort of implies there is a connection in some form. Maybe there is a principle such as "diversity of action"? within the core principles that says we don't need to be consensus approved to carry on. Just reading the Principles of Solidarity Working Draft on nycga.net that isn't there but I believe I read something referring to it when it was discussed at GA after the arrests on the Brooklyn Bridge during the Direct Action report back.

Nonetheless - we would of course be better off to reach out to every GA all over everywhere to publicize our efforts and ask for their participation since what we are essentially asking for is for them to be the people who are part of a National General Assembly drawn from the whole country. Have I made a mistake in my assumptions?

astramari

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Re: Has this Working Group been approved by the GA in NYC?

Post by Guest on Thu Oct 20, 2011 12:35 pm

Frankly, I don't care if the NYC GA has approved this. Last time I checked there are Occupy protests around the world and the NYCGA doesn't have a monopoly on organization.

There are folks across the country (including myself) who live in small towns and want to be a part of the 99% but can only do so via the Internet at the time being. NYC is not the end-all, be-all of the 99% or Occupy movements.

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Watch this video to learn about general assembly please

Post by lmnop on Thu Oct 20, 2011 1:41 pm

I will repeat again, for those of you who didn't get it the first time. NYC is, of course, not the be all or the end all or the beginning all. I was simply asking the admin for this group for truth in advertising. He formerly had a banner on the home page stating that these grievances and this plan had been approved by the NYCGA. It had not been presented as a proposal for consensus vote in that body. Since I and others raised this issue, the admin has changed the masthead on the home page to reflect that this is simply a working group. The grievances listed on this forum have not passed any general assembly consensus yet. Just to be clear, this forum is a place to work on what seems to be a living document which I think (I hope) the admin plans to present eventually to a GA for approval. This is not to say that one person's voice or one communities voice is more important than anothers, but that presenting the proposal in person in front of a general assembly is an important step in gaining true consensus on these ideas. Otherwise, you are participating in a separate movement, which is fine, there is room for many dissenting voices in this world, we all know that! My point being if you are going to use the name of OCCUPY WALLSTREET to promote your agenda, it's important to actually join occupy wallstreet to be a bona fide part of this movement. I hope this is clear! This is a call for solidarity within the movement and non - co- optation of the name without the spirit.

The group is listed on the nycga site as a working group. Anyone can start a working group. You gather consensus for the ideas generated in the working group by reporting back to the GA and getting temperature check from the assembly body. It's how the movement is set up, it's the basic core element of this movement to be based on a consensus model, also known as direct democracy.

If this group would like to really be part of the OWS movement, myself and others suggest that you do regular report backs to a general assembly in your area. If you don't have one, start one. Here is a great video to watch that explains some of the background:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odFygPMwbIM

as always, thanks for listening.

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Re: Has this Working Group been approved by the GA in NYC?

Post by lmnop on Thu Oct 20, 2011 1:43 pm


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Re: Has this Working Group been approved by the GA in NYC?

Post by kefranklin on Thu Oct 20, 2011 2:42 pm

I agree that the NYGA is the NYGA, just like the Wisconsin GA would be the WIGA.

To have us toil, we offer it up and then THEY vote? So we have no vote? That might be democratic amongst the NYers present but that isn't democratic overall.


There needs to be national coordination. It's here. There's a lot going on in NY. They have their hands full being NY. If they are a movement unto themselves, I hope they do great things.

If they are part of the national OWS sentiment, then there needs to be a clearinghouse and it evolved into here. I imagine if we tried to do it, it would never have worked, but there was no intent. Movements are living, evolving things. It brought us to today.

There was a need - a void - to have a place where everyone, regardless of geography can meet, help, talk, think and vote. It's here and it will be at the Convention.

It's important to note that ANYONE is welcome here, to my knowledge no one has been heckled or poorly treated and the process is transparent and democratic.

That is what anyone would want.

To re-invent this, just so NYGA could say they did it. Well, that's ego. We are on their side. If they aren't with us, so be it. It's the land of freedom.

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Re: Has this Working Group been approved by the GA in NYC?

Post by Guest on Thu Oct 20, 2011 2:57 pm

Amen, sister!

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